Summary
In this episode of Care Lab, Emilia Bourland and Brandy Archie explore how to navigate sensitive conversations around hygiene, toileting, and bathroom safety. Joined by occupational therapist Maria Lindbergh of Toilet Talk, they discuss compassionate communication strategies, the role of timing, tone, and family dynamics, and the importance of approaching these topics from a partnership mindset. The conversation highlights how occupational therapy—especially in-home evaluations—can identify root causes, provide practical solutions, and support dignity, safety, and independence for individuals and their caregivers.
Key Questions Answered
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How do you bring up hygiene or toileting concerns without embarrassing someone?
By approaching the conversation with empathy, using a calm and respectful tone, choosing the right timing and private setting, and framing observations as care-driven rather than critical. -
What if the person is a family member who doesn’t listen to you?
Use existing family dynamics strategically—identify who they are most open to hearing from and ask that person to help communicate concerns from a place of trust and love. -
Why is having a solution ready so important in these conversations?
Offering a clear next step (such as occupational therapy or a specific resource) shifts the focus from the problem to support and problem-solving, reducing shame and resistance. -
What are common reasons behind toileting and hygiene difficulties?
Challenges may stem from difficulty wiping, mobility limitations, balance issues, urgency or incontinence, vision changes, or environmental barriers—often more than one at the same time. -
Why is in-home occupational therapy especially valuable for toileting issues?
Because real bathrooms and routines differ widely, in-home evaluations allow therapists to see actual movement patterns, hazards, and habits, leading to more accurate recommendations and effective solutions.
Transcript
Brandy Archie
You smell something, you notice something, or you see a near-missed ball and now you gotta bring it up. How do you talk to someone about they have to hygiene or safety concerns without embarrassing them or shutting down the conversation? And that is exactly what we are unpacking today.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
We're so lucky to have here back with us again, Maria Lindbergh. She is the owner of Toilet Talk, an online resource with candid toileting tips and bathroom solutions to make your bathroom beautiful and safe for a lifetime. You can get your free Grab Bar Guide to customize Grab Bar replacement next to the toilet at toilettalk.me. And Maria, thank you so much for being here with us today. Yay, we're happy to have you back.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Thank you for having me. I love talking to you guys on CureLab.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
We love having you here on CareLab. So this is an awkward conversation to have. By definition, yes, this is super personal. I mean, how do we get started with this?
Brandy Archie
By definition.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Thank
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
my gosh, yeah, I was, well, I'll tell you how it came up. I was talking to a person who owns a local company where they provide in-home care services. So he oversees a staff of personal care attendants and he explained to me how difficult it can be for these care attendants to address things that they may see.
So they may be going into a home and they notice that the person they're helping is maybe not cleaning up thoroughly after they go to the bathroom. They may notice a smell, maybe some soiled clothing. Maybe they notice that person is having a hard time getting in and out of their shower and they're concerned that they're going to fall and maybe have to call 911. So that could be really
challenging for those people who they're not trained to know what to do next. You know, we're all occupational therapists and for us, we can clearly like, okay, we know what to do and we know the right words to say. But for some others that can, they're not trained to tactfully dance around that topic. So something that I shared with him is being able to
compassionately and empathetically go to that person to say, hey, I've noticed that your pants are a little bit soiled after you go to the bathroom. It seems like you're having a hard time with that. I know somebody who I could call in to help out with those kinds of issues. Are you interested?
and just kind of making it like an invitation to like, hey, I'm noticing these things. I care about you. And I know who to turn to to ask for help.
Brandy Archie
Yeah, I love how you broke that down because it's not actually about the exact words. People don't need to like go back and rewind and like say exactly what you said. But if they can use those three components, like you just said, and like demonstrate that you care about it, do it in an impactful way, and then also make sure that there's an end goal in mind. Like I have a solution or I have a way for us to get to a solution. Then it helps people be like, okay, this is does not necessarily have to be a thing that I'm embarrassed about. And it's not like.
a fifth grader saying, who farted? know, like, why does it stink? You're like, that's a completely wrong way to go about it. But like, if you come at it with a softer tone and an understanding one, like, it can be seen as something like, somebody actually notices and cares. You know, I liken it to like, if you are talking to somebody and you see they got something in their teeth or something, and some people would just like not want them to be embarrassed and just won't say anything, whereas I'm like, it's embarrassing that it goes past me.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Yeah.
Brandy Archie
So let me just like let you know briefly so that you can deal with it and then keep moving on. So I guess the question would be if somebody right now is listening and feels like, okay, maybe that makes sense for like a care provider because they are there to provide care, even if they're not trained to like have this conversation. But there is like a clinical-ish type relationship happening. What happens if it's like, you know, my sister or my brother or my mom, like how do I deal with that?
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
my gosh. Amelia, you, before we were recording, you were talking about a strategy that you have for your own family members. Do you want to talk about that or, or, I'm happy to give, another example.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Well, think, sure, won't give like super specifics, but what I will say is that there are different dynamics in every family and information is, and there's not like a right or wrong here, but we all have different types of relationships with all of our family members. And so you might have a relationship with one of your family members where you're really good about talking about sensitive things or sharing advice or making recommendations.
and that kind of goes back and forth really well. And then you might have other family members where like you butt heads more. And so, but then there might be other people in your family who that person that you butt heads with, they, you know, this sibling or their, you know, spouse or their aunt, you know, whoever it is, has that more like open relationship with them. So I think it's important to think about.
how you're utilizing the natural dynamics of your family in order to successfully communicate something that needs to be communicated. Not because you're trying to be like manipulative or get around things, but because different communication is received differently from different people. And from a place of love, you want to make sure that your family members are, that they're okay, that they're cared for, that they're able to care.
themselves, right? So like, maybe you don't have a great relationship with, let's say, your dad or something, or you do, but this, your dad is not someone who listens to you. He doesn't listen to you, right? That happens sometimes. You could be the biggest expert on something in the world. And sometimes maybe your dad says like, no, I, you're my baby. I don't listen to you. But on the other hand, your uncle has that relationship with your dad. And you'd be like, hey, uncle,
Brandy Archie
This is not the things you talk about. Yeah.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
I think we both notice these things. Do you think that you can bring this up with that? So again, it's of understanding how to navigate our different family dynamics in ways that result in continued positive communication and relationships at the same time that we're kind of the things done that need to be done. Hopefully that made sense and was clear enough. I think that the other thing to consider here that I would add to that is
A lot of times, like at higher standards, when I'm talking about having difficult conversations, whether it's as like a family member or professional non-medical caregiver, like I talk about like the two T's, timing and tone. Like when are we addressing these things and what tone are we using to address these things? Are we addressing things out in public where, or in front of multiple people where someone would
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Mmm.
Brandy Archie
Mmm.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
feel embarrassed about that, right? Or are we making sure that we're doing this in private where someone is not gonna feel like their vulnerabilities are on display? Are we using a tone that says, I'm feeling sorry for you or I'm disgusted by you or whatever it is. Or are we using a tone that says like, hey, stuff happens, this is matter of fact, I care about you, let's figure it out.
Brandy Archie
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
that thinking about those things can be really helpful for awkward conversations.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
totally, totally. Yeah, I know, especially about the like going back to the family dynamic. So I was a caregiver for my grandparents. And there's definitely a difference between like how I approached my grandmother versus my grandfather. And they were both, they were both of the greatest generation. But also that generation doesn't talk about or didn't. I mean, for the very few who are left, they don't talk about personal issues. They're not really complainers.
And so with my grandmother, she was able, we had a close enough relationship where she'd come and she'd say like, Mimi, I don't feel safe, like getting in and out of my tub, I feel like I'm gonna fall. And so I'd be like, okay, got you grandma. Like, let me throw some grab bars and put a tub transfer bench in there and a long handled shower head. And she was like very happy and good to go. And my grandfather,
did not come to me and say like, I'm scared in my shower too. I'm gonna fall also. You would just see him like lose his balance everywhere. And that was a time where I could say, hey grandpa, I see you losing your balance a lot. It makes me think about your shower. How are you feeling in there? You know, like inviting him and he usually said good. He's good, good. know, nothing's ever a problem.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
and when I was like, well, I have a couple of ideas for your shower. Like, can we talk about it? And so then I went in there with him and I'm like, I'd like to put a grab bar right here and then a shower chair for you. And then he, he was like, yeah, okay, let's try it. Let's, let's be good. And then we did it. He was very happy because he could sit down and shower and not lose his balance. And he never, he never fell in the bathroom. So we were very happy about that. He fell other places, but not.
Brandy Archie
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Hahaha
Brandy Archie
wonder what they say. You said that very intentionally. Not in the bathroom though.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
but not in the bathroom, but other places. So yeah, so it can be kind of tricky to navigate that. And then when I worked in skilled and in acute, you can see, like if you're a paid caregiver and you're going into a home, you can look at family members and you can clearly identify like who your patient or who the person you're working with, who they're more likely to talk to.
Are they going to be more open to the daughter, more open to the son? You know, you have family or patients who say like, they're the boss, like they'll point to their adult child and be like, they're the decision maker, they're the boss, whatever. So it can be like, you can take your concerns to that person and say like, this is how, you know, your dad's doing this. And this is a solution that could really help them with their safety in the bathroom or with their personal hygiene.
Brandy Archie
Yeah.
Brandy Archie
I also think that like we kind of brushed over the fact that we're all OT and we know how to say this, but I don't think I knew how to talk about this very well when I was a new grad or earlier in my career. And so I'm interested to know what you guys' suggestions are for ways to bring it up. Like I know timing and tone are still ultimate, but it's also about changing habits, right? And so,
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Ooh.
Brandy Archie
while you might have done one thing one way for the last 50 years, we now need to do something a little bit differently because of X, Y, Z. And that's sensitive no matter what the topic is, even if it's not about the bathroom. And so this comes to mind when I was just having this kind of conversation with a client who didn't really have great insight into the challenges that they were having. And so one of the tricks that I have for that is often to, hey,
I had this other lady who also had macular degeneration. And you know, what we ended up doing was XYZ and that really helped her out a lot. How do you think about that? You know, even though that's exactly what I want her to do, you know, but it's not me telling her what to do. It's me saying like, I got solutions to your point, Maria, and do you want to apply the solution? So like, do you guys have any other tips or tricks that have helped from a clinical standpoint?
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Well, think kind of to maybe piggyback a little bit off what you were saying, it's important, I think, to approach these conversations from like a partnership perspective versus an expert perspective, even though like, know, if clinically I'm talking to someone, technically I'm the expert in the room, but I'm the expert on like, on OT stuff, right? That doesn't make me the expert on that person.
Brandy Archie
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
or how that person is or their life or how they're going to feel about that. And so I think that if we want to help facilitate change that people will actually engage in and that they're going to be active participants in, then we need to approach it from a partnership perspective, just like the example that you just gave, right? Like you made a suggestion, but you also asked, what do you think about that? Is that something that could work for you?
Brandy Archie
or their life.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Right? And ultimately, I think that when we approach things from a partnership perspective, that makes it much more likely that we're going to get anywhere, you know, with the person that we're working with. I think that's a lot harder when we're talking about our families and our loved ones. Maria, do you want to talk about that?
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Ho ho ho ho.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Well, no, that's just in general. mean, you, man. Yeah, I was joking earlier about wishing how my parents listened to me. But I wanted to also talk about like, yeah, as a new grad, no, I didn't have that skillset. That's something that you have to learn. And I've made so many blunders and did not approach things well.
So it is definitely a learning process. But for new grads, yeah, I totally agree, Amelia. I tell people like, you are the expert on your life. I'm here to give you options and plant seeds, and then you get to pick and choose what's going to work best for you. And so as a new grad, or just if there are any new grads listening or any caregivers like,
a free resource that I have on my website. It's my hard time wiping, let's talk a booty at course, where people, if they are having a hard time wiping, then I lay out some options that they can pick and choose. And so that can be something as like, if you're a new grad, you could just introduce like, here's this free course, you can take it. Or as a new grad, I took this free course and this is, here are some things.
from the course that I learned that could work for you. Or as a caregiver, you could say like, hey, Gerald, yeah, I'm seeing that you're having a hard time wiping. Here's this.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Can I just jump in and say that Gerald is the best example name I've ever heard someone give? Because I've never heard someone give Gerald as the example name before, but I love it. Okay, sorry, continue.
Brandy Archie
Hahaha!
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
I mean, when you work with so many Gerald's, it's just, know, those people pop back out and they're always on my mind. I'm like, Gerald, I hope you're doing well today with after you took the hard time wiping Let's Talk to Moody, of course. But yeah, just being able to say like, hey, do you want to watch this together? Or, you know, just having those free options.
Or let's have you had occupational therapy in your home before, home health therapy? Have you gone to otconnected.com or not otconnected, sorry, asksammy.com. Have you gone to asksammy.com to look at some bathroom solutions for to be safer? So those are strategies if I was a new grad, those are the things that I would or caregiver.
Talk about because I you know at that point in time if but if I didn't have any of this OT knowledge Then and I I'd be like I I'm not going down this path with you I'm not going down this like we're we're gonna talk about toileting solutions because I have no idea what I'm talking about I would I would just be like here are the resources Go forth if you choose to use them. That's great. If you don't that's okay, too Like we're all on our own timelines. I know that I don't
instantly take other people's advice. And so you have to give people, you know, that grace to be like, okay, they're taking a while. Of course, some of our, the people we work with have some cognitive impairment, so they may need additional help, and that's okay. But for caregivers or people who don't really know what they're talking about, that is the best way to go.
Brandy Archie
Thank you.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
And yeah, back to family dysfunction. Yeah, or not just, well, I'll just call it what it is. Yeah, family may not talk to you, they're not. Yes, it can be so, so hard. I love my parents and they, you know, I cannot approach them as the expert. I cannot do that.
Brandy Archie
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Mm-hmm.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
It does take a lot of work for me to be able to apply those same principles, like give them grace, they're on their own timeline, they don't have to take my advice right away, giving them options, like doing those kinds of things. I have to be able to do that for them as well. And I think it is very difficult as, you know, an oldest daughter, so oldest daughter syndrome, when like, I know what's best, I'm going to tell you what to do.
It can be really hard. I have to check myself. And so also as OTs, like I had that same issue when I was a new grad too, like, you know, listen to me. I know what I'm talking about, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's a very humbling thing to look at yourself in the mirror and be like, you gotta step back. You gotta step back.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Yeah, think I'm honestly like in my it's so interesting. I think in my as an occupational therapist in clinical practice, I am very good at approaching people from a partnership perspective and like just, you know, letting them be the guides in my family. I am very bad at it. And I mean, just being honest, like I think if you've ever heard any.
Brandy Archie
Thank
Brandy Archie
You
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Care Lab episodes before, you've probably at some point have heard me saying like, no one in my family listens to me, but maybe they don't listen to me because I'm not doing a good job on, like, I'm not personally doing my best job being a good partner in that conversation because I do have a tendency to show up and be like, hey guys, this is what I do for a living. I'm the expert. You should probably just listen to me.
because I don't want to take the time and energy that it takes in order to do the much harder work actually of having a partnership style conversation, but it would probably go better if I did. And I would say that just because like, again, recognizing it's really hard. You can be very good at this in one way and have it be so difficult in your own family. That doesn't mean that we can't still, to your point, Maria, be aware and be an
intentional in the way that we approach things, understanding that when we show up as the boss, for some folks, that's just not going to go over well. We have to show up as the Parker instead, whatever that means in that relationship.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
yeah, totally.
Brandy Archie
So one of the key things that y'all talked about when we're making these like conversations easier if we can is then having a solution. So we talked a little bit about getting solutions, finding solutions and resources from SMA and from the TOTAL course. But what about like some specific solutions for specific problems? Like what if it is that you notice that the person is not able to wipe themselves well enough anymore and we smell that or see that.
Like can you give, Marina, can you give us a few options for like physically, you know, changing the situation?
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
man, well, it's hard for me because I instantly go into OT mode. So it's kind of hard like for me as a caregiver. I don't know, maybe we can help, we'll help each other talk through what could be easiest for a caregiver to implement. But if I see somebody having like, they have soiled clothing, for instance, then I'd say like, okay, you your clothing looks like you got something on there.
let's go, I'll go back to the bathroom with you and let's just check and make sure like your undergarments are clean or whatever the case is. So going back into the bathroom, because that kind of lets me know, now I'm going to see them, right? As OTs, we're trained to observe, observe, observe. And so it's very easy for us to take that and use that language to describe what we're seeing because that's how we document.
So I'm able to go in and see how that person, know, are they having, as we go back into the bathroom, are they able to fully take off their clothing? Are they able to, you know, if I suggest that they clean up a little bit more, maybe use more toilet paper for wiping, are they able to do that on their own or are they struggling? So those are things that I would look at.
first to kind of give me a better idea. And those are, that's language that I could also give that person to say like, I see, like it's a little, I noticed that it's hard for you to pull your underwear down more so that you, don't get it soiled from when you go to the bathroom. And, just talking about that.
So as a caregiver, I would kind of stop there and try to give them that language to be like, you know, I think if we call up your doctor, your primary care provider, get a referral for occupational therapy, then they can come and help you with those kinds of things. I'm always just something that seems to be very, or in my experience, easier to help people with like toilet hygiene specifically is using water.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
to clean their bottoms. So using some sort of bidet, which I could go on and on about the different types of bidets and what could be useful in certain situations. But I'll just go ahead and stop there. And I want to hear what you guys think or what are some things that you would tell caregivers on what to do to help people who are struggling with bathroom stuff.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Well, think it's really helpful that you talked about the fact that having some observation, if that's possible, can be helpful in this situation. Also understanding that depending on the nature of your relationship, you and your care partner or your loved one, they may not be comfortable with you doing that kind of observation. So asking for a referral to a specialist like an occupational therapist who
whose job it is as a professional is to go in there and kind of observe those things. That can be, know, honestly, probably one of the best things that you can do. But just understanding that, like, let's say someone's clothes are soiled. Well, there could be multiple reasons. It could be that they're having a hard time wiping. It could also be that they couldn't get their underpants down quickly enough, right? It could be that maybe they're actually having incontinence issues and it doesn't have to do with the act of trying to get clean afterwards, but rather
Brandy Archie
you you
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
you know, just trying to maybe there's some urgent continents or something like that in the first place. So there can be lots of different reasons. And I think that understanding that there are, there can be multiple causes for toileting issues is just a really powerful thing to know because it allows you to one, keep an open mind about possible solutions. And then also to understand that sometimes even things that seem like they could be really simple.
it can be really beneficial to have a conversation with your doctor, to have a conversation with a therapist in order to get down to the bottom of what is really going on. Because sometimes people are, you know, we're noticing that there might be some toileting issues and there could be an underlying medical condition that actually the doctor can solve, or it's an underlying functional condition that the therapist can solve. And then...
you don't necessarily have to help that person with toileting anymore. Brandy, do you want to talk a little bit more about that?
Brandy Archie
Yeah, I think it's like really keen to note that there are most are often multiple reasons for any problem and sometimes I see well-meaning caregivers See something that addresses the a part of a problem like hey you need this or you need to go to do this but we don't actually figure out like is that the actual reason for the issue like
And be ashamed to like have this whole awkward conversation, spend money on a thing, and that's actually not the root of the problem. And so I think incorporating occupational therapy is like a really keen way to do this. Because it's similarly to what we were talking about before. Sometimes it just takes somebody not you saying it. And maybe you do know exactly what the problem is. But if you've said it and it's not been taken up by the person, it might just be because
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Yep.
Brandy Archie
you're the deliverer of it and we need somebody else to deliver it. And that's where a third party can come in and why not have an expert be the third party that can come in. And so like the one thing I would want to say for further future action steps is occupational therapy is covered by insurance and your person has insurance and you can get somebody to come to the home and you can either have home health come out and see them if that's the right way to go about doing it. Or you can have an outpatient
therapy service that shows up to your house is a thing that's available in pretty much everybody's city. So you should know that those are options for you and that that can be covered by your insurance at the same rate that it would be if you went to the outpatient or were in acute. And I think it's a really underutilized form of occupational therapy that is not like access except for when there's an acute problem, we to the hospital, then we went to the nursing home, and then we went home and we got therapy along the way.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
Like you can initiate this and you can ask for it from your doctor and it can come to the house to figure it out. And you don't have to be treated for months on end. It could be targeted for that particular bathroom issue and have a few visits and then be done. And so I really want people to understand that you can use occupational therapy in a myriad of ways and you should initiate that. Don't necessarily wait for somebody to tell you that you need to have it.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Yes. definitely. Because I feel I feel so strongly that we like occupational therapy services save people money in the long run. We do have a lot of research in other areas showing that. But instead of buying all of the gadgets and all of the things like save yourself some money, hire an expert who can help pinpoint the problem like you're saying. And if there is any equipment needed or any
Brandy Archie
Let's go.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
anything else needed, then you can go ahead and just wait and buy it then and save yourself some money. But yeah, sorry, Amelia, you had something to say too.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
was just going to say, I like that you pointed out that often people can get even outpatient therapy services can actually happen in people's homes now. And Maria, I wanted to ask you a little bit about or to talk a little bit about like the benefits of having specifically a toileting evaluation occur in the home versus out in a clinic.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Oh my gosh, night and day differences. Because you know what, as imaginative as us occupational therapists are, we never really know what the heck is going on until we see somebody in their actual home environment. And I love, this is my favorite example to give. My mother had an elective knee surgery coming up.
and this was about five years ago. So I said, hey, mom, let me see how you get in and out of your tub shower. Let's just get it set up for the, she's very independent on her own, but in my mind, I'm like, let's be prepared for the worst possible or not worst possible, but you know what I mean. If she were to need a lot more assistance. I'm so eloquent with my words.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
But anyway, she gets into the shower how I would think most people would. And she got in just one leg at a time. She put the strong leg in first and not the hurting knee. And then when she's getting out of the shower, she does this weird twirling, stepping over.
holding onto a robe hook on the wall. I was just like, never would have guessed that's how she was getting out of the tub shower. And I was like, I just laughed because it was so ridiculous. And I was like, of course this is how you get, of course this is like the weirdest way for you to get in and out of the shower. And I can judge my mom, it's fine. But anyway.
Brandy Archie
Okay.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
So you never, you never know how people are moving around in their bathroom. Like, as humans were very creative, like I've seen people saw, like have their own solutions to things, and it gets the job done. Is it is it the best that you know, are there better things that could be done? Yes, but they don't know that. And so to have it in it, you know, when you have somebody show you like,
when I've gone into people's homes and I'm usually like, hey, if you have to go to the bathroom, that's great. If you don't, that's okay too. Like I'm not forcing people to go to the bathroom when I get into their home. But I'm like, hey, just like to see.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
It's quite a way to introduce yourself to someone though, isn't it? Hi. Hi, my name's Emilia I'm your occupational therapist. And now I'd like to see you use the toilet.
Brandy Archie
Hi!
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
I will introduce myself.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Yeah, that is it is so awkward, but it's also so like working in sniffing a queue. I've done that. Like you're in the middle of shower, people totally naked. like, Hey, Maria, I'm here to do an evaluation and well, let's get started. Like you're you're great. You're on the toilet.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
You
Ha
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
yeah, hundreds of times.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, perfect timing. Really? Yes.
Brandy Archie
Perfect timing! You're already in the bathroom? Awesome! This is what we're gonna do anyway, so...
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
This works. This works for me. You've never met me before, but this is great.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Yeah, yeah people love that but
Yeah, no, so very different approach in the home where it's like if you want but I just need to see like like how how you do things and that usually goes better whereas if you are in so, know, I talk being in outpatient setting Skilled nursing facility. I realize I've been saying sniff and not telling people what that is skilled nursing facility nursing home Those kind of like being in the hospital
those places are more likely to be set up so that that person is more independent and taking care of themselves. So for instance, there may be a grab bar next to the toilet so that it is easy for that person to get on and off, but that's not how most people's homes are set up. And so what you're going to be seeing in an outpatient setting or something outside the home is going to look totally different from being in person.
Brandy Archie
Yeah, I love that you explained it that way. And that's why I think occupational therapy is done best in the home because all the other settings were just like trying to make up what home looks like and do the best job we can from where we have you at. And that's like commendable, but there's just been so many times that I've walked into a house and seen, for example, a perfectly good bathroom. And I assume that that's the one that they use. And actually they use this other bathroom down the hall because this bathroom is my husband's bathroom. I don't use that because I don't want to have to clean it and he's a mess.
and I go all the way down the hall. And like, I would have never gathered that information from an interview in the hospital, right? They would have just said, I get up, I go to the bathroom. They would talk to me about that bathroom. But it's actually really important that the bathroom you use is all the way down the hall and your bedroom is over here, right? Like now you've had a knee surgery, it hurts to walk. Now, are we gonna take the effort to go all way to that bathroom? No, we need to start using this bathroom. Okay, that's a totally different thing to think about.
How are we gonna access it? Like, I never even use it, you know, and I'm okay with using it for now, but like, let's work through that. And so that's just like another example of like, it's not only how you do the thing, but it's like where you do things, how you get to the thing, you know, and those all are factors that play into like what your capabilities are. If you don't get to see somebody do that, then you're not necessarily diagnosing the right problem and coming up with the right solution for them. So.
Yeah, doing it within the space is super important. And you have the capacity to do that with an expert in a couple of different ways when you use an occupational therapist. And so that's why we are screaming it from the mountaintops that you all should use in OT to help solve these problems.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Mm-hmm. Okay, we have covered we've covered a lot here today. Sorry Maria. Go ahead
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Yes.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
no, nope, that's all I gotta say.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
okay. Okay. So we've covered a lot here today. We've shared a lot of information. What do you all think are the top maybe like three to five takeaways that listeners can have starting with, okay, we have someone so, you know, where we see someone who is maybe having some trouble toileting. Like what are the, what are the top things that someone should keep in mind?
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
I love your timing and tone because I feel like that's easiest to remember. Like, you know, how do I bring up this issue to this person? And being mindful of like, when's the right time? Is it when they're panicked, you know, standing in the living room or when they're sitting down resting or, you know, whatever. And then the tone coming from a place from like, I care about you and I want you to know about this.
And then I'm jokingly saying pass the buck. But what I mean by that is like saying, hey, I know a solution. You can ask for occupational therapy services. You can have somebody who is an expert with these issues in the bathroom, whether it's safety or, you know, toileting or bathing or whatever the issue is, you could do that. So timing tone, pass the buck.
Brandy Archie
And I will add place and space. So yes, we had a good timing. Yes, please do pass the book and also consider the place that we are doing this in. And if there's ways to do it in a different place or in different way, just understanding and observing, I guess is what I'm trying to say before we make a proclamation about what needs to be done.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Ooh.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
All right, so listener, if you made it to the end of this episode, wait, actually, sorry, there's something else I need to do. Maria, we've talked a little bit about this, but I think that there are quite a few resources on toilettalk.me that would also be helpful for this. Would you just kind of get a nice summary to wrap us up here about what people can find on your website?
Brandy Archie
Thank
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
Yeah, I feel like the resource most pertinent to this conversation is the free hard time wiping, let's talk a booty it course. So that helps people with some positioning, how should we sit on the toilet? What can help us be better? But also tools and changes that could be made to the bathroom to make it easier for people to take care of themselves and be safer on the toilet.
So you can head on over to toiletalk.me. In the resources tab, it'll come up as course and you're good to go.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Amazing. Maria, thank you so much as always for being back with us on Care Lab. I'm sure we'll have you back again soon because we love you. And we think you're the best. Listener slash, yeah, listener slash viewer, if you made it to the end of this episode, please take a moment to like, subscribe, share, please leave a comment and review. Those are the best ways to help this content find other people who would benefit from it. Until next time, we'll see you right back here on Care Lab.
Maria Lindbergh (Toilet Talk)
I love you.
Emilia Bourland, OTR, ECHM
Bye!
Brandy Archie
Bye, everybody.
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