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Summary
The CareLab episode discusses innovative approaches to senior care, highlighting the importance of personalized, compassionate, and technology-assisted solutions. Experts share insights on improving the quality of life for seniors by integrating healthcare services, supporting caregivers, and leveraging advancements in AI and remote monitoring.
Key Takeaway
- Personalized Care is Essential: Every senior has unique needs, and care solutions must be tailored accordingly.
- Technology Enhances Senior Care: AI, remote monitoring, and smart home devices improve safety and quality of life.
- Caregiver Support is Crucial: Family and professional caregivers need resources and assistance to provide effective care.
- Preventive Healthcare Matters: Early intervention and continuous health monitoring help seniors maintain independence.
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Community Involvement is Key: Social connections and community support play a vital role in seniors' well-being.
Transcript
Emilia Bourland
Good morning, welcome to Care Lab.
Brandy Archie
We'll go to CareLab everybody. I am so excited today because we have an awesome guest. We have Jessica Guthrie here today and I'm gonna tell you a little bit about her. But the one thing I wanna say too is that CareLab is about caregiving and we've tried to bring you guys really great content about things you might need to know as a caregiver because nobody trains you for this job. But what's really the most important is hearing from other people who are already caregivers, right? And so that's why I'm super excited to have Jessica with us today. She's a master in education and she has her master's in education, I should say, and is a visionary leader reshaping the caregiving landscape through her lived experience as her mother's Alzheimer caregiver, and over a decade of executive leadership experience too. So as founder of Career and Caregiving Collide, and founder of Jessica C. Guthrie Caregiving Consultancy, she champions dignified empathetic care while helping organizations create innovative support strategies for family caregivers. So she's really out here doing the thing and also making sure other people are providing the things that y'all need as caregivers. As a nationally recognized advocate, Jessica bridges the gap between corporate initiatives and real caregiver experiences, ensuring diverse family voices drive meaningful change in care solutions, which is super important. And the reason that we even met is because I saw Jessica presenting at a conference that I was in, which was for pretty much healthcare executives and people in people who provide services for people who are caregivers and for older adults.
And yet, frankly, hers was the only voice there that was actually a caregiver, right? Except for maybe a few people who said in the past they took care of their parents or something like that. But she's really there as the one voice for everybody who's maybe listening right now. And so I'm super excited to have you here and really appreciate the work that you're doing because you're doing like double duty by actually being a caregiver currently, not just like 10 years ago. And then also trying to make sure caregiver voices are being heard. And in these rooms where people are trying to create solutions for you without you there.
Brandy Archie
So thank you for coming.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Right, Thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat today. Also, I don't know what Dr. Brandy shared with you. When I met her, she was wearing green glasses. And so I was like, her glasses truly are a discussion piece. So I knew that we had to be friends once I saw her glasses.
Brandy Archie
sure
Emilia Bourland
And if you, okay, so if you're listening to this right now, and as opposed to watching on the CareLoud Podcast YouTube channel, you might at some point go and check out this episode on the YouTube channel, because you will see that both Brandy and Jessica are wearing really great glasses. Jessica in particular, I mean, not to slam your glasses, Brandy, but Jessica's are like, they're really good. They're really, really good. It's worth going to look at.
Brandy Archie
Mine are kind of boring today.
Emilia Bourland
And I've just got my contacts in as usual.
Brandy Archie
So Jessica, thanks for coming. Nothing to see here. Okay, but I have an icebreaker question for us. And so Jessica, you got to go first. And I just want to know, tell us something that actually made you laugh out loud recently.
Emilia Bourland
Nothing to see here, folks.
Emilia Bourland
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
my gosh.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
It is kind of hard. Okay, this is really specific, but it happened last night. So I'm a huge Grey's Anatomy fan. I've been watching it since 2000, I don't know, six. And I watch every season, every episode. So last night was Thursday when this is recorded. And I'm also a huge real housewives of insert whatever city franchise. So Atlanta, Potomac, yada yada.
Brandy Archie
It's kind of a question.
Brandy Archie
Nice.
Emilia Bourland
Gotcha.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Okay, and the most recent season of Potomac had a character who was new and she had like a fake boyfriend, okay? And we find out that the whole relationship was fake on the entire like season of Real Housewives of Potomac. And then last night I'm watching Grey's Anatomy and the guy who played her...
or not played with the guy who was her boyfriend was an actor on Grey's Anatomy. And I was like, he was like a legitimate actor and like, they really weren't together. Anyway, it made me laugh out loud because she made us believe for a whole season that that was her man. And then long story short, he truly was an actor and he was in Grey's Anatomy. Yeah, anyway, it made me laugh out loud. Maybe not you all, but I was like, the connections.
Brandy Archie
He's like a real actor.
Emilia Bourland
my gosh, that's nuts. Brandy, this is like the hardest question ever. feel like, so partly because I feel like I laugh out loud a lot in certain, like I laugh a lot on Care Lab. And then other times, like I'm not, it's kinda like if I'm watching a comedian or something, feel like it's not, even if I think it's funny, I'm not like laughing out loud most of the time.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
It's hard.
Brandy Archie
Okay, okay.
Emilia Bourland
I'm stalling because I can't, I can't think of a specific example. I'm having really hard. was probably something that my kids did or said. mean, they, they're, they're so funny. Okay. This isn't a, this isn't a great example, but it's one that I can think of. I love, I love like really corny jokes. I think, and like tons. And the older I get, the more I love them.
Brandy Archie
Hahaha
Brandy Archie
Great.
Emilia Bourland
And the boys used to go to this like math tutoring center and they would have like these, they would have math jokes up on the board and I would love them. Okay, so here's my favorite and I genuinely laughed out loud for this. Okay, and this is written down. So it's hard to tell as a punchline, but it's written there. says, do you want to hear a joke about statistics? Probably.
Brandy Archie
Wow!
Emilia Bourland
Get it?
And you can't tell it because you have to read it doesn't work any other way
Brandy Archie
you
That's funny. That's funny. I think that's funny. This was, I mean, this is a hard question only because you have to be specific, but I think it's fun. So my answer is, and to be fair, I just not like I thought about this for a long time. I can't put this like literally as we were cooking records. So my answer is also my kids because they make me laugh out loud all the time. So my two year old daughter thinks she runs the house. She's the youngest and I have two other kids.
And so she's always trying to tell everybody what to do including her parents and so She just makes me laugh all the time but usually that makes me laugh the most I think or most frequently is that she will take my face in her hands like this and turn her turn me to her and say It's okay. Mommy. You're go and take a nap. Okay lay down right and I'll tuck you in night night and I'll be like
She's like, it might be that, because I say I'm tired and she's not super mad, or I'm hungry, she's going to get me something. But she's always trying tell me what to do. you know, it just makes me laugh. She's just a little tip squeak. So, and trying to be the mama of the house. So, that's my laugh out loud person all the time.
Emilia Bourland
love that she puts her hands on your face to like focus you like, like, listen, this is what's going to happen moms. I got you. Just follow my lead. Like that's, that's hilarious. I can, I can, I can picture her doing that now too.
Brandy Archie
Yes, she's very serious.
Brandy Archie
You
Brandy Archie
Yes, yes. for everybody who doesn't know, okay. Jessica, this is good context for you too, because you asked like, how do y'all even know each other? And we...
actually had never met until like a couple of weeks ago. And so never met in person. We've been doing this podcast and working together over the past year, but hadn't actually physically seen each other. And so we did a couple of weeks ago and we got to meet each other's kids. So like now you can actually picture that. yeah.
Emilia Bourland
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
So fun, so fun. We had a great time. Yeah.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
That's so special! I love that!
Brandy Archie
Yeah.
Go ahead.
Emilia Bourland
Okay, should we talk about real stuff now?
Brandy Archie
We should talk about real stuff. Let the people hear what they need to hear.
Emilia Bourland
We should probably, we should probably talk about real stuff. So, probably a great place to start is to ask you like to kind of tell your story, but I'm going to start somewhere else because, because I do what I want. So like, this is the thing that strikes me about this situation. There are, there are a lot of really wonderful, caregiving consultants who come from the place of, having, like they started because.
they have been caregivers and like they get it and they needed support when they were there. I think that you're really unique in the fact that you are still in the trenches. Like as we speak, you're literally doing this. How have you managed to like find the grace and the time and the capacity to provide the services that you
at the same time when you are going through it yourself. That's incredible.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Thank you. That's such a big question, because I don't think that I'm providing that many services because I am a caregiver full time. And so just like, I am going to do the best that I can. But so let me just rewind. Hello, everyone. I have been a caregiver for the last 10 years and six months. I add the six months because that matters. It's been a very long time. My mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease at the age of 66. I was 26. I am an only child. She's a single mother. So it truly has just been me and my mom.
Emilia Bourland
Mm.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
I was living in Dallas, Texas when she was diagnosed. My mother was in Virginia. And so I was a long distance caregiver for the first half of this journey. And then I moved home formally instead of flying back and forth all the time in 2019 pre-pandemic. At the time I was working in education. And so I, all things education leadership management and my...
Brandy Archie
you
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Job was so supportive, so great. And at the same time, once we got to 2023, my mother was declining. I put her on hospice in 2022. It was time for me to make a pivot. It was time for me to spend more time with my mom because she was declining and needed me to be more proximate. I share that context because I decided in 2023 that my pivot out of education was going to be into this caregiving space because I did not see
practitioners and or just people who were deemed experts that looked like me and that were talking about the millennial caregiver experience. I was 26. Most of my peers were talking about travels and how their parents were doing X, Y, and Z for them. And I was thinking about how my mother like was going to survive and like how I was going to take care of her financially on a nonprofit salary, right? Like my life was just very different. All that is to say, I pivoted into this caregiving space because I wanted
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
I saw two things, one, young millennial caregiver perspective, but two, I realized very quickly that no one was really advocating for the family caregiver and no one was really looking out for the family caregiver. I had to figure out so much on my own by trial and error, by having to speak up and advocate. like, especially when it came to dementia, Alzheimer's disease, you think doctors know, and they don't know anything. And so I was like,
Brandy Archie
You
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
wait, I'm confused why I have to come into the office with so many questions to get my answers and then still be told, well, you're doing a good job. What you're doing is great. And you're like, yeah, but why is my mother no longer able to walk? know what I mean? Like I had all these questions. So all that is to say, quick context background to answer your question, how do I do it all? I think there is power in the fact that I am still doing it. And it adds a level of credibility.
in the sense of like, I'm not just blowing smoke on social media. I'm not just sharing because like, you know, I'm making something cute for content. I'm sharing because part of my experience that I felt so alone. I felt so invisible. And part of me sharing and amplifying and helping people online has created this sense of affirmation and community for folks. Has helped people be like, because of your story, I now know how to ask for what I need or advocate for my person because of following you.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
I feel less alone on this journey that also feels really lonely, right? So I think the how do I do it? I do it because I'm not, I don't look at it as let me go create content, let me go do this thing, because I have to. It's because like, I just did it for my mom. So let me just like put up the examples that other people can learn from me in real time, because that's actually what's most helpful. Because I love so many, so many like great practitioners.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
Mm.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
exist and at the same time, what people really want is like, I just want to hear from a caregiver. I just want to hear from someone who's doing it and someone who's going to keep it real and honest. And that's truly just been my truth while holding both things at once.
Brandy Archie
Yeah. You know, the thing that I think is so like everything you said was important, but the two things that stand out to me the most is that you and others felt alone in the caregiving journey and that you need help like right when you need it. You know, like there's, there's, there's just, it doesn't matter if you, if you and I meet and I provide all the great education at year one of this journey.
when you didn't need some of those facts until year eight. You ain't gonna remember none that. And so like you need on-demand support. And I feel like that's a reoccurring theme in the things that we talk about at CareLab too about just like, and the things that we hear from other caregivers who come on the show is those two really key things. You need help when you need it and you also need to not feel alone. And so I know you kind of balked at Amelia saying you're providing all these services, but like those are the things you're providing. So if y'all don't already know.
you should be following Jessica on Instagram and all the social media's on the platform because you're sharing in real time. And also there's a community there that people are super engaged. People are talking about the things that they're doing, what works for them. so without creating, don't think that should be minimized, I guess is what I'm saying. I think that's the thing that people need and they just need to come to find it and hopefully we can help with people finding you. So thank you for doing that.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
you
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.
Brandy Archie
Yeah.
Emilia Bourland
So I want to talk a little bit more, I think about you pointed out that you go as that often caregivers will go to the healthcare provider and, you know, assume that the healthcare provider is going to have some answers, which ostensibly they should. Or if they don't have the answer, then we should know who to direct you to, to get the answer. Right. But being, but being left like so frustrated that
Brandy Archie
should direct you.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
yeah, I don't have an answer and then just sort of, but you're doing great. Kind of shrugging your shoulders. I, and having not been in the position that you're going to in as a caregiver, but on the other side, as a healthcare provider, I also find that incredibly frustrating when healthcare providers just shrug their shoulders and say, I don't know because that's never been my job. And by the way, to healthcare providers who might be listening, like I listen, I'm there with you. I get it. It's impossible to know everything.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
It's really hard. You have everyone breathing down your neck all the time. And sometimes your day can be really rough. I know, I've been there. But we also, like, we have to, sometimes we just have to do better. I don't know another way to say it. I don't know another way to say it.
Brandy Archie
Yes!
I mean, thing I like to say all the time is like, OTs, you might be the only OT that somebody ends up seeing, right? Like you shouldn't just assume that, they're gonna keep going down the pipeline. Somebody else down the pipeline of the healthcare track is gonna deal with that. You should just assume that you're the last stop for this person and family and you should give them as much help as possible. And even if that help doesn't come directly from you, but you just give them a breadcrumb to the next step. Like I'm not 100 % sure about that, but I do know that you should probably talk to
Emilia Bourland
Sorry.
Brandy Archie
these people and they'll guide you to the next step. mean, it's just like, how do you, how do you feel about that Jessica? And has that happened in your life? And if it did or did not, was it helpful?
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Yeah, gosh, I... Yes, it has happened and I'm trying to like succinctly put it all together. I think the thing that I come back to is...
as a family caregiver, as Jessica, you don't know what you don't know, right? And so you don't, and you don't know who you should know until someone either points you that direction or like you hear about it from someone else to ask the question to get connected to that person. And I think the thing that I'll just offer in this space is like, I think there's an underlying assumption that like caregivers know what to ask for or like know or like know what's available to them.
And frankly, as a dementia family caregiver, in this instance, I knew nothing about occupational therapy until it was almost too late. And it's only because of a friend who's an SLP that I saw online, because she worked at Home Health. She was like, well, have you thought about OT? And I was like, what's that? And so then I then had to go to my doctor, my mom's doctor and be like,
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Hey, my mom is struggling with her walking gait. Can we get some support with occupational therapy? I hear that that's a potential support for us. And she was like, well, why do you need it? Like it was all these questions. And I was like, this feels like a fundamental support that I should have actually known about long time ago, but it wasn't until I brought the question. And then even once I brought the question, it was like almost a hurdle to get the supports. But then even once we got OT,
I would have loved for them to be like, okay, well, we can't help you, but here are some things that you could do, or here's the people that you can be connected to. And that never happened. And so even once family caregivers get the understanding of maybe the questions to ask, who to ask for, it often stops there. No one is helping hold your hand in the next step unless you ask a direct question or you have enough insight to ask. And so I think in this instance, this is a moment of...
family caregivers having to speak up and advocate to ask for what they want. And then even once they get what they might need, it stops there often, right? Like no one actually like says, okay, well then here might be the best thing for you. And it's just like, again, caregivers have to put the hat back on to figure out what they need and to advocate and ask again. And like, that is just so much work. And so maybe what I would just offer here too is like, the family caregiver is already holding so much.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Right? Like you were navigating doctor's appointments, you were navigating changes in your person, you were navigating the realities of your own career, parenting, like living your own life. You were navigating all of the changes on top of like the barriers in our system. The least healthcare providers could do is to operate with more empathy and curiosity and to make sure that we don't leave people hanging to fall through the cracks. That's the least that could happen. And whether it's an OT or anyone else that's serving a family caregiver.
Emilia Bourland
Yeah. I mean, I think really, really well said. And sometimes I think it's really easy to get caught up sometimes in like, you know, the things that they, so the things that they have to provide us about what's your productivity, how much are you billing for? Did you use the right code? XYZ. And what I always like, what I like to have conversations about with, with other OTs who are going through it or other just providers who are going through a period is.
Remember that the job is not a billing code. That's not the job. The job is to help the person in front of you in whatever capacity that you can within your own scope of services and then to help them by giving them whatever else information they need for someone else's scope of service. it's the job is to help the person that's in front of you. And I really think that if we
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Hmm.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
do that and we can like have tunnel vision on that as opposed to the other hundred things that are coming at us at the same time and all those other pressures. I think everything else gets bigger because guess what? We create better outcomes when we focus on helping the person that's in front of us instead of thinking about what that CP code is and do we need a G modifier? Which makes sense to some people who might be listening out there.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
Hahaha
Yeah, think what, Jessica, what do you think is the thing that, okay, you've been on the caregiver journey for 10 years now, 10 years and six months. And when you think back to year one or two, or even to the people who are in your community that are in earlier stages, what is the things, what is like a few things that you would want to have told that earlier, Jessica, now that you know, because you know exactly what you said is true. You don't know.
the things you don't know until you get to a place. But maybe we can help the people who are not already at your 10, right? So what are like a few things that would have been helpful to know earlier?
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Ooh, that's good. What would I have told younger Jessica 10 years ago, Jessica, now that I know what I know. One is that like, okay, you have a diagnosis, but like your mom isn't dying tomorrow, right? And so you can slow down. You can, and you should slow down and get really proximate and get really present. And I'm speaking through the lens of dementia, but I think for any terminal illness or disease that your person might have, it's like,
continue to make the memories, continue to treat your person for all the humanity that they are, like for all of their humanity, right? Like continue to make them feel loved and seen and valued and create the spaces for them to thrive and flourish even as things change. And so for every caregiver, slow down. You don't have to have every routine system and structure figured out just because you just got a diagnosis. Like, yes, be proactive. Like, yes, be on top of it, but...
you know, breathe. I think the second thing I would say is that you are your person's eyes, ears, and mouth, right? Like my mother now is currently no longer verbal, but even when she could talk and navigating things like dementia or just navigating the healthcare system in general, you've gotta be on top of it. And I would tell any new or younger caregiver that like, it is your job to keep clear records. It is your job to tell the story and to build the narrative of what is happening with your person.
Because frankly, whether it's home health, whether it's your doctor, whether it's hospice, you yourself are the only person that is likely there 24 seven that knows all the ins and outs of your person. And you are the expert. so like own that and be proud of that. And like, don't let anyone else drive that boat, but you. So there's that. And I think the third is truly lean and people say that, and I hate when people was like, lean on your community. And it's like, actually hold the phone.
Brandy Archie
Okay.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
One, community will look different than you think. And so I wish I would have told myself, I wish I would have known this 10 years ago, is that like the people that will show up for you are the people that you least expect to show up for you and be open to support. Like say yes, no matter how big or how small, just say yes, because even though you think you might have it, even though you're strong and have all of these things, know, letting someone buy groceries for you or letting someone
Brandy Archie
Yeah.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
you know, at least just like listen to you will go a long way. And you want people in your corner doing the big and the small things, even if you don't necessarily see it in this current moment. Those are the top three.
Emilia Bourland
Was that hard for you personally to learn to say yes to help? I think that's something that a lot of caregivers can struggle with is feeling like they have to do it all on their own and they have to do it perfectly. Was that a challenge for you?
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
I think in the beginning, because I was 26 and I was building my career and I was living in a different place and I knew nothing about Alzheimer's disease, you go and I went into like hit the ground running mode, I'll figure it out because that's just what like, that's how we solve problems, you know? And no one was talking about it. So I didn't even know who to go to to ask for help. So I was like, I'll just figure it out. I'm an educator, I'll create this system. was like, I'll...
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
prep 40 meals because my mom needs to eat. Like I was like, I will take all this on. And because I was working full time and I wanted to be seen as competent and still be promoted and still be seen as like a really great employee, I was burning the candle at both ends. And so it wasn't that I didn't know how to ask for help. was that like asking for help might show that I can't do this and I need to keep my job. And I want to make sure that I'm still on this track of my career, right? This whole collision between career and caregiving. and so it was hard. I don't want say it was hard. I just chose not to.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
Yeah.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Speak up, ask for help because I thought no one understood. And then two, I didn't want to be seen as if like not being able to handle it all. Even when it, and in hindsight, know, let's fast forward 10 years, that's crazy. Don't do that. Do not do what Jessica did. Speak up, To actually, I wish I would have like brought my, you know, friends, family, church people in in a more clear and thoughtful way.
Brandy Archie
You
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
versus what felt like actually in the first few years, hiding it and masking it and trying to just like be seen as like, we got it. My mom is good. I'm good. You know, when that actually could have, it was detrimental, I think, in just to my ability to be seen and supported. I do think though, most people struggle with this idea of asking for help because they don't want to be a burden.
well, they've got other stuff to do or their plates are just as full or, you I've already asked them for help and they didn't show up. And so I'm just doing it myself. And it's like, what I would say to anyone who is not a caregiver and if someone who's asked you for help or has said like they're struggling or their person has a diagnosis, they don't really know what to do. It is your job. If we take just a community care approach, it is your job to check in on that person in the most genuine and authentic way, right?
Hey, you shared this with me. Is there anything that I can do for you? Or like, hey, I've got some free time. Can I do X, Y, or Z? Give me some options or say something. Don't put the burden on the person who's a caregiver to not just ask you for help, but then tell you what they need. Just truly be present and curious and so much, or so many more doors will open that way.
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
I think it's interesting that you've used this word twice about being curious, not for like families or I guess like community, all of us, and then also for like healthcare providers. And I think that's not said very often, but it's so true. So like, if you just like be curious, then you're ask a question that's gonna lead to like, didn't realize that was a problem. I actually know something about that or can connect us to something about that or whatever. You know I mean? And it's just so.
and the caregivers in the the dealing with somebody who's grieving or who's dealing with caregiver or any of those like touchy situations where we all like to say, you know, I'm praying for you. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. It's just like a I don't know what you're willing or capable of doing or want to do have time to do. I don't want to ask you something. Ask something of you that's going to be offensive because you're like, why would you think I could do that? I would want to do that. You know, but if instead of that, I say, you know, hey,
I'm taking my kids to the park. Can I come pick your kids up too? You know, and then like, I don't need to say like, so you can have a break. So you can take care of your mom. you can, you figure out what to do with your time. Listen, I'm already doing it. It don't, it don't take no extra effort for me to just swing by and do that. That's the thing that's in my wheelhouse. Doesn't, it's not a burden to me, right? You know, I'm not going to offer something that is a burden. And so if we can be more, I think that's like just a human thing. That if we can be more like that with the people that we love, you care about them. That's why you're saying.
Emilia Bourland
Hahaha!
Brandy Archie
What can I do to help? But that's just not that helpful. But if you're more curious about like, hey, I'm doing this, this, this and this, any of that sound good to you? Can I do any of that for you while I'm doing that? And then you can tell me yes or no.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Yep, that's it. I think to the point, sorry, a point of curiosity from healthcare providers and medical professionals, it's just that like, I think especially when coming to the home, right, like I've experienced so much home-based care for my mom, whether it's home health, palliative care, now hospice care, and even navigating the neurologist outside of the home. But I think I keep pushing this word of curiosity because
Brandy Archie
Yes, yes.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
I think I experienced so much over the last 10 years, a lot of assumptions about what I knew or didn't know, a lot of assumptions about my understanding of my mother's disease, and a lot of people writing us off for not listening. And it's like, actually, hold the phone. As the family caregiver, I have got a lot of knowledge. Actually, I'm the expert here. And I frankly understand what you should be doing, what you should not be doing. You're not doing any of it. It's one of those things where it's like,
Brandy Archie
Mmm.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Hey, if you would just slow down to say, hey, can you tell me what are the things that you noticed with your loved one over the past few weeks? Or like, hey, is this typical of her usual routine? Like I'm making up questions, but like, it's like, we actually treat family caregivers and ask questions and be curious about what care looks like in the home, you would get way more out of a family caregiver and truly be seen as a partner versus someone entering to the home for 20 minutes to do your
iPad checklist of things, right? Like the family caregiver.
I think often, nevermind, I feel or I felt a lot of times where it's like, gosh, if she would have just asked the question versus assumed that didn't know what I was doing, this would have been a very different conversation. Or just asked the question, realized that I didn't actually know how to do X, Y, or Z. I would have been able to advocate to get that support and I did it because she didn't ask. know what mean? So it's just like questions and curiosity go a long way and frankly, do not assume
Brandy Archie
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
I think it's like, I want healthcare providers to have more curiosity because I think there's an assumption that just because a family caregiver doesn't have questions or it doesn't come with like all the things that they don't have them. They just don't know what to ask. And so how are you mining? How are you creating a conversation through your curiosity? And that would make appointments experiences 10 times better.
Brandy Archie
anything.
Emilia Bourland
It would also make care more efficient too, because if we actually, it might take longer to be curious and ask those questions in the first place, but then guess what? It actually allows you to address things in a way that is meaningful. And so you're not going to have someone who's making appointments or coming back into the office or is repeat through the ER over and over again for the same problem, because we can actually
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Yeah, and person-centered, yes.
Brandy Archie
Yes.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Yes.
Emilia Bourland
we can get to the root cause of problems. And even if we can't hear what is going on, we can address the underlying like functional thing that needs to happen to make it better or make it manageable. And so it's not actually like it, feels like we don't have time to do these things, but actually we don't have time to not do these things. it's so no one became a healthcare provider because they didn't care about people, right? Or I hope not.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Yes. Yes.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brandy Archie
Yep.
Emilia Bourland
If you did, wrong job. But like, you, if you did, then the reason that you love the job is because you do care about people. And it's so much more rewarding to, I love your use of the word curious, Jessica. It's just like monumental here to be curious and to show interest and form a partnership. That is like, that'll remind you what you love about the job.
Brandy Archie
You
Brandy Archie
You know.
This is the heart of which, you know, this is the reason why I really love caring for people, right? Is to be able to ask those questions and not, and I come to you and say, hey, you're the expert on your mom. I'm the expert about like the stuff that's around here that could be helpful to you. Let's talk together about this and see if we can find some things that make sense for us to work on. Right? But I, on playing devil's advocate, I can hear the wheels clicking in some healthcare providers head right now saying, well, if I ask open-ended questions like that,
my visit is gonna be 60 minutes and I can only be there for 20. If I ask open a question and they have a question that I can't answer, then I feel bad that I don't have a solution for them. I don't know how to make sure that I'm operating in my own wheelhouse. And so it's sometimes easier to think I will just stick to my topics and make sure that do. Then I least know I did those things right.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
and
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Yeah.
Brandy Archie
And so the thing I would push back on that is one, what you said Amelia, which is you can't afford not to be thinking in this way or using persistent care strategies in this way. Cause otherwise your care is for lack of better words, worthless, right? Like it's fine if somebody came and checked her blood pressure and check her sugars and all the things like that's fine and good. We should do that. But if that didn't like move the needle on either making your caregiver stress less or making her healthier, then it's worthless.
Personally, I think in my opinion, you know, and so if you really trying to make a chain It's less it's it's less effective Yeah, I mean maybe you'll pick up on something that's happening that you wouldn't have picked up on if you weren't checking those vitals but like you are worth so much more you as a health care provider has so much more knowledge and also the Family and the person is worth so much more service than that And so I know this is a 100 % shameless plug, but that's exactly the reason why we created ask Sammy
Emilia Bourland
It's certainly less effective, right? Like it's certainly less effective. Yeah.
Brandy Archie
so that you could have at least something to point somebody to. And we might not have all the answers either, but at least you can say, okay, Jessica, you asked me a question I don't have an answer to, but I'm thankful that you told me, you know, this might be a good resource and either use it or send them to use it. So at least there's a next step, right? And then like, we'll make sure you get to the next step and like, just find at least one resource in your wheelhouse that is like, hey, this place has something for most of the things that I don't do, but my clients definitely.
And so I'm gonna make sure I refer them to that. It's just so much more helpful to be able to ask those questions and be more meaningful in the care that you provide because you can.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Emilia Bourland
So Jessica, before it, cause I know we're, we're, we're coming up to our time here, but I have a couple more questions for you before we go. One is, and I hate to put you like super on the spot, but I wonder if there, yeah, to put you on spot. is there, what's like the most recent lesson that you have learned on your journey as a caregiver that you would want to share with people?
Brandy Archie
That's why we're here.
Emilia Bourland
And then second, where can people find you and your content and your services?
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Great. Do the easy question first. Social media, you can find me at Career Caregiving Collide, all three words, three Cs, Career Caregiving Collide, where I share, vulnerably and honestly, the life of a full-time caregiver of someone living with Alzheimer's disease. My website is jessicacguthry.com and everything's there.
So there's that. In terms of biggest lesson that I've learned.
Emilia Bourland
Yeah
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
as a caregiver. Can I get, I'm going to give, I'm like, okay, so, okay, great.
Emilia Bourland
You can say whatever you want. This is beauty of the Care Lab podcast. You say what you want. Do what you want.
Brandy Archie
Exactly. You do what you want.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Okay, so I'm gonna kind of hit like different sectors. So like as a family caregiver that is now navigating like healthcare spaces or like, know, advocacy spaces, startup spaces, right? Working with medical providers, business owners, okay? So as someone who is in that space, something that I've learned in the last year is that there are well-meaning folks who truly care about care.
who truly want to see progress and innovative things created for family caregivers and or like for the relationship between the family caregiver and medical providers, whatever it might be. There's so many great people who care. Yet what I've learned is that like,
there aren't very many family caregivers in the space that are helping drive those creations. And so I think what I would offer to anyone who's listening, it's like, you know, if you want to create something, if you want to build a business, if you want to build an app, if you want to build a product, and you don't have family caregivers on your board, in your leadership team, in your space of helping you design, like you're fundamentally already two steps behind.
And I am just like deeply committed and I've learned that we need more family caregiver voices of the full spectrum of care at the table, at the very beginning and through the process. And so like, that's a very like technical learning, but I just, that's my, am speaking up and advocating for more family caregivers at the table so that things are done well the first time. And done through the lens of what impacts family caregivers, not through the lens of Medicaid, Medicare and or whatever system you're working within.
The second lesson that I've learned as someone who supports other family caregivers is that everyone thinks that they're alone. Everyone thinks that no one understands. Everyone thinks that they're on this journey by themselves. And frankly, yes, there's a lot of loneliness as a family caregiver in whatever disease you're navigating, but people often don't realize that folks around them are also navigating
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
We're not conditioned to talk about it. We're not conditioned to like lean on each other. you know, care has to be a community effort in the sense of like, I see you, you see me, and like, I am willing to show up for you and be present and like help you navigate X, Y, or Z because, you thriving means I get to thrive. And like, I just think that the more people step outside of like their blinders of their own experience, which is very real.
Brandy Archie
Yeah.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Right, don't get me wrong. The more you realize like you're not alone. There's actually more people that have more things in common with you than you think. And like folks actually want to show up for you and like let them. And so like that's that. And then my last lesson, just like personally in my own journey is that...
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
I did not realize this until I put my mom on hospice the first time in 2022. We're on our second round of home hospice now and we're not coming off. But it wasn't until I slowed down and stopped trying to multitask, stopped trying to be in a Zoom meeting here, but also sit next to my mom and do X, Y, Z that I really like saw my mom and like gave her the space and like,
the relationship that I think she was craving. think my mom benefited the most from going on to home hospice and like me going on family care leave for my job because I finally stopped trying to do everything when my mom just wanted me to sit next to her. When my mom just wanted me to sing songs to her. When my mom just wanted me to paint her nails. And so the lesson here is, I think, and I mentioned this at the beginning, it's like, I think we try to do and be everything for everyone.
Brandy Archie
and
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
and you, I didn't really see this until, until I thought my mom was dying. Was that like, there's power in the pause. There's power in just being present and not having to have everything scheduled, every little engagement figured out, right? Like, we're trying to be, you know, you know, a worker. It's just like, actually, no, your person actually just wants you to be there next to them and to like see them and create space for them to feel seen. And we can't underestimate that in someone's longevity and.
you know, feeling of connectedness in whatever they're navigating.
Emilia Bourland
I don't think it's ever been said better. Wonderful. Yeah. mean, thank you. I, I, I a hundred percent understand, why Brandy saw you speaking at a conference. Obviously you have a powerful story to tell, but you're also so incredibly, you're just really good at telling it. That was, that was the opposite of what you are at saying things, but it's the truth. You're really, you are absolutely.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
That's it.
Brandy Archie
I was thinking the same thing.
Emilia Bourland
wonderful at telling your story and being an advocate. So thank you for what you are doing for your mom and for the other family caregivers of the world and actually also for healthcare providers because we do need more advocates like you who are telling us what you need and how to be better. So we appreciate that very much and we appreciate you being a guest on CareLab. Thank you so much for being here today.
Brandy Archie
Yeah.
Jessica Guthrie,M.Ed
Yeah, I loved it. Thank you both.
Brandy Archie
If you guys made it to the end of this episode, we thank you and we're glad that you did. So make sure you like and subscribe and download. That way we can be found by others who are looking for this kind of content and can be helpful to them too. Make sure you leave us some comments. Let us know your thoughts and also who else you'd like to hear from so that we can make sure to have those conversations. Until next time, bye everybody.
Emilia Bourland
Bye!
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